« How To Get THERE from HERE - Part II | Main | Are You Playing for the Exception or the Rule? »

From the 009 Time Capsule (Bits from the past)

The following entries are bits and pieces from the past that might help you gain some knowledge in becoming a advantage player in craps.


Re: Working into the Iron Cross
« Reply #2 on 11/10/06 at 15:31

We should get together at the casino one of these days and go over the semantics of playing the Iron Cross. It's a play that should be worked into play gradually. It should never be used on RR's.

I only use it on my rolls and then only if the point is 5, 6 or 8. I put double odds on the point and wait till I have pressed up to three units on each of the other two numbers and only then do I put a one unit bet on the Field.

This assures me a reasonable return on all the junk numbers. When I have four units on my place numbers I would increase my Field bet to two units.

If 5, 6, and 8's are hitting, get off the Field bet.

This is my "keep it simple" version of the Iron Cross. Good Luck.


Re: Are Some People Just Lucky?« Reply #1 on 11/1/06 at 15:02

There are two types, the lucky one and the unlucky one. The unlucky one we know as the kooler, who never wins and affects everyone around him.

Then there is the lucky one who can never do anything wrong. True story. I will call him the lucky drunk for a lack of his real name. This happy-go-lucky drunk bellies up to the table, straight out and get's the dice as the next shooter. He picks up the dice and at the same time tells the stick guy to give him a $10 twelve. As he throws the dice, he yells, "come on; give me a good old twelve." Sure enough it was twelve. Now he presses up to $20 and says the same thing and threw another twelve. I'm thinking, dumb luck. He's busy expounding on the good old twelve’s and presses another $10 for a total $30 bet on the twelve.. He goes through his good old twelve routine and by god he threw another twelve. He finally made a few numbers and seven out.

There's more. The next shooter is coming out and he yells, "Come on good old twelve." You guessed it. It was a twelve.

Our first impression is he is one lucky stiff. I saw what happen but what we don't know is how many bad times he has had. We only remember the good times. A crap shooter is only as good as his last throw, as long as it is not a seven.


Re: Walking with a profit
« Reply #5 on 10/19/06 at 13:38

It's disheartening to hear you had a bad time at TI. When in Vegas, TI has been my second home for five years. Not knowing the full details of your misadventure with the crew, I'm wondering if the whole situation could of been avoided.

You related that you turned off about $250 you had on board. That in it's self was a good move, considering you didn't have the dice. To prevent any mistakes and losing that amount, it might have been better to take down all your bets instead of turning them off.

I never turn off a bet. I prefer to come all the way down and get my chips off the table. Trying to out guess what another shooter is going to do, is impossible. You already made a bunch on that shooter and he was giving you a signal that he was struggling.

When the thought of jumping ship enters your mind, listen to that guy that resides between your ears and pull out and stay out. In the long run, you will never have to worry about that happening again.

Not hitting the back wall is a common problem we all have. We have to learn to live with the ramifications that occur whether we hit the wall or not. When this over zealous new box guy jumped on you, you could have retorted in a nice friendly manner, "Gee, I'm terribly sorry, I'll try to do better". This immediately defuses the situation and takes the thunder out of the box guy. As it turned out, he accomplished his goal and upset you in the middle of a roll.

I love TI, but over the years I have had incidents occur that have upset me also. Like the stickman who kept whispering and badgering the players to make bets for the crew. I had just got the dice and the stick guy says, "How about a hard six for the crew.” I retorted quickly, How about you giving me the dice with the three's up and then I will decide when to place a bet for you." Amazingly I received the dice with the three's up, made a hard six for the crew and had no more badgering the rest of the session.

My advice to any DI is to defuse the situation, get the crew on your side and enjoy the game, don't fight it.


Re: What Do You Want in a Craps Table?
« Reply #10 on 10/17/06 at 14:21 »

Love that quote, Jeffrey47. However in my twisted way of thinking, I have to look at it back wards. There's not much I can do for the table, except play at it and maybe have a good run and make everybody rich.

What the table can do for me is more prevalent. It can be twelve footer, but most important of all, it should provide me with my favorite shooting position. The table could provide me with an old fashion felt top. It also could provide a congenial, experienced crew and a friendly Suit in the pit. The table could also provide a few friendly female dealers for the reason Jeffrey47 indicated.

What I can do for the table is follow MP's advice on adjusting to playing conditions and eliminate those sevens. I guess I got it all back wards but when you put it all together, it works.


Re: Back to the Basics
« Reply #5 on 10/14/06 at 15:27 »

Back to the basics. Sometimes we tend to forget what is important when practicing. We tend to concentrate on the toss and forget about setting the dice. The more we set the dice, the more we get use to where the numbers are on the dice. The more we set the dice in our practice sessions, the more familiar we become with the dice. Never leave home without them.

It's when I try a new set or permutation, that I slow down on setting. Once I get 72 to108 tosses logged in, my memory banks start to function and the new set becomes second nature.


Re: "The Quiet Eye"
« Reply #11 on 9/18/06 at 14:21 »

Very interesting article. I spend five days a week on the golf course and have heard the old "keep your eye on the ball" remark many times. The last thing that goes through my mind when addressing the ball is, "watch the club head hit the ball".

Same with putting. Direction hasn't been a problem. It's speed and distance that makes putting tough.

How to relate this to throwing the dice and subconsciously using your dominate eye is something to think about. You have the same requirements to get the dice to hit in your landing zone. Direction, speed and distance. Getting that quiet eye to focus on the landing zone for a couple seconds just before you toss, is the key to making a hole in one in craps.


Re: Is "Hit the Back Wall" Heat ??
« Reply #2 on 9/17/06 at 19:16 »

Going back as far as I can remember (some thirty five years), the casino craps personnel have been warning players to hit the back wall. Some times I think it is an automatic reaction to any throw that misses the back wall.

I remember one time when I missed the back wall with one die and the dealer in a bored monotone says, "you have to hit the back wall". The stick guy came right back with,” wake up, this guy has been playing for two hours and hasn't missed the back wall till now".

Another time in a downtown casino where I swear the table was only a ten footer, I missed the back wall while try to adjust to the short toss. This older stickman says, "try and hit the back wall sir". After my next toss the stickman whispers to me, "thanks for hitting the back wall".

I wouldn't consider either one of these occurrences "heat".

Heat is when they, the table crew or pit vipers add a remark to the back wall warning, such as, "or you will have to pass the dice". That's the start or real heat.

Most of the time they are just doing their job and have been programmed by the suits, If it doesn't pertain to me. I don't worry about it.


Re: Energy from the Table Crew
« Reply #4 on 9/11/06 at 15:19 »

The way we are treated by the table crew and pit plays one of the most important parts in selecting a place to play. I rate it above table size, bounce and $ minimum.

It makes you feel real good when the Suit comes over and greets you with a Hi, glad to have you back, where you been?

Or; The box guy says, Hi Charlie, you want a chair tonight?

Or; One of the dealers says, OK, now we got a shooter at the table.

Or; The stick person ask the guy at SR1 to move so you can have your preferred position.

Or; The cute little female dealer says, we missed you and your friends.

Or; The stick person says, come on Mr. C, make that ten.

When coloring up, the Suit says, do you want your pizza tonight?

Under these conditions, you experienced a warm feeling even though you might of had a losing session.


Re: Do some people want to lose
« Reply #5 on 9/11/06 at 14:29 »

You might be on to something with the sub conscious theory. I have a friend who is scared to death that he is going to miss out on a winning number. As soon as the point was established, he would place the remaining box numbers. At a $10 table he would have $72 or $74 at risk with a PL bet with single odds.

If any of his numbers hit, he would press it. I got tired of asking him, when are you going to bring some home. He would say, you can't win any money playing that way! I tried telling him to cut back his bets to just two numbers, after two hits and then you would only have your PL in jeopardy. He would say, what if one of those other numbers I took down hits? I tried telling him, you didn't lose anything.

Same deal with horse races. He would bet long shots all day, insisting that you can't make money on favorites. Some where the in bedded Gray matter between his ears, refuses to let him win. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.


Re: Casino Trip Reports
8/29/06 at 12:46 »

Good trip reports are the result of dedicated posters wanting to inform the members of the Board of events that accrued during their visit to various casinos.

I am interested in where they played and how they were treated by the crew and pit personal. Comps and table minimums do not play an important part in my casino considerations. The amount of money or units they won or lost is inconsequential. It's well enough to say I was satisfied with a win, or lost a bunch on the session.

What I find most interesting in a trip report, is the strange or unexpected things that happen during play. I enjoy hearing how the players and crew handle obnoxious kill joys at the table. In a previous post I related what happened when one of the Suits, during a chip fill, spilled six racks of chips all over the table and bets. It was wild. When they tried to clean up the chips they knocked over more stacks. It's things like this that make entertaining reports.

It's good to know if you played on twelve or fourteen foot tables, but as far as hardness is concerned I would rather find that out for myself.

As far as heat is concerned, it is always good to know in advance if there is any forthcoming and should be in the report.

The characters you end up playing with could be the highlight of your report. Craps is just like golf. If you want to find out about someone's personality, just shoot a round of golf with him or watch him at the crap table. Sooner or later his true personality will surface.


NEW TYPE OF HEAT OR ACCIDENT?« Thread Started on 7/23/06 at 13:55 »

It could only happen on a crazy Saturday night at the Boat. Let me start from the beginning.

Saturday morning, on the golf course, Laser says lets hit the Majestic Star tonight. Target calls in the afternoon and has the same Idea. It has been six weeks since the Crew have been together for a Saturday night roll.

The tables at MS-1 were crowded so we went next store to MS-2 and found Target at SL2 at a $5 table. Some of the players recognized us and made room. The guy at SR1 was about to get the dice when he up and left. The stick ask me if I wanted to shoot before I even got my chips. This was great. Walk up to the table and they hand you the dice.

I seven-out after about six tosses. Target wormed or charmed his way into SL1 and did the same thing. Laser (at SL2) also bombed on his first turn. We were all down about $150 by the time the dice got back to me.

Target had a profound look on his face and I told him to relax, were just getting warmed up. I got things rolling with a thirty minute run. Target batted next and was twenty minutes into his roll when it happened. The chip fill. The floor Manager was putting six trays of red chips done on the table when he dropped the whole batch of chips on the table wiping out all the bets on the 8, 9 and 10. The Suit, boxman ,stick and dealer were all thumbs trying to re-stack everything.

In the process they knocked down more stacks of chips wiping out the 4 and 5 place bets. It really was comical. It took fifteen minutes to clear up the mess.

The three of us turned our bets off for Target's first roll after the spill. I told Target to keep focused and just get past that next roll. He threw a five and we turned on all our bets and he rolled for another fifteen minutes.

The suit was very apologetic and was yelling yo-eleven on Target's first roll after the chip spill.

We were not done. Laser proved why he is on the team with a twenty-five minute roll of his own. The Crew was back. Three great hands in a row. We colored up, collected our $30 pizza comp and headed for shore.

Was the spill intentional? I don’t think so. There was too much panic in the crew to get things back to normal with the right bets in the right place. It makes you wonder though.

It might make for a good chapter in book 4. "THE GREAT CHIP SPILL."


Re: Be Careful who you play with!« Reply #3 on 6/27/06 at 18:59 »

Someone said, be careful who you play with from the websites,
You got me looking over my shoulder. I agree with most of what you said. However, all the people from this Board that I have met and played with over the years, have been outstanding individuals. Sure there are dangers out there when meeting with strangers you have never met personally, but there is also the reward of making new friends with the same interest.

My personal experience has been good with all of them. Shooting with Board new-bee's can be just as rewarding as playing with Random Rollers. When you have a table full of DI's, anything can happen. I've seen newbie 's have some fantastic rolls. I've also have seen a table full of DI's go away from the table with their tails between their legs.

It's the common bond of craps that brings us together for one common cause. Win money from the casino.


Re: Extra Height! Reply #11 on 6/19/06 at 19:00

Being 5'-8" myself, I have had the same problem. Most off the time I end up shooting with one foot off the floor. When squaring away to the back wall at SR-1 or 2, I find my left foot coming off the floor. I brace myself by hanging on to the chip rail with my left hand as I reach out as far as I can for a straight away shot.

I practice on my converted pool table which is a inch higher than the casino tables. When I get to the casino I feel more comfortable shooting.

I can see it now! Guy comes in with his crap shooting elevator shoes in a bag and puts them on right at the table and puts his regular shoes on the drink tray and goes to work. All other athletes change shoes to play. Why not us?


Re: Attitude Adjustment Needed« Reply #21 on 6/12/06 at 14:02 »

The attitude adjustment at the Lucky Eagle casino, reminds me of a session, a few years (10 or 12) back, at the 4-Queens (downtown). We had a party of twelve that had just finished eating dinner a Hugo's. We took over an empty table and things were going pretty good. The crew was happy for the action and everybody was making a little money. Our wives were even playing.

High pitch John had the dice and was making points and hardways like it was a fire sale. He was tossing the dice at least five feet or more higher than the table layout. When the dice didn't bounce off the table, he made numbers. Well, about a half hour of this got the pit critters attention. He watched for a few minutes and then told John he can't throw the dice that high and bring the toss down or he would have to pass the dice.

Now John is not the person you want to have a consternation with. This just made John a wee-bit up tight. He tries to set a new altitude record with his next toss. The chandeliers were in Jeopardy but you don't tell John how to throw the dice, especially when he is on a roll.

When the dice came down, it was a hard eight. The table went berserk and so did the pit critter. He told john to pass the dice. Someone yelled pass the dice to John. We all pass the dice back to John. The pit critter was foaming at the mouth and smoke was coming out of his ears. He told John to pick up his chips and stay away from the crap tables.

At this point we all pick up our chips and left the table. We were heading for the front door when another pit critter caught up with us and tried to smooth things over. John's wife politely told him that there are a lot better places for us to spend our money than having to put up with that guys crap. That table was empty when we got here and it's empty again with less chips to worry about. You aught to send your fellow worker for an attitude adjustment.

John's roll did more than pay for the meal at Hugo's.


« Thread Started on 5/28/06 at 14:22 »

Saturday night we arrived at the tables at 8 pm. This particular Boat has four twelve foot tables, all $10. All four tables were open. One table was full and another had four players with SR and SL both open. The third and forth tables were empty. All these choices, what’s a guy suppose to do.

We circled the tables a couple of times and finally decided on the empty table closest to the cashier’s cage with the blond stick gal and the good looking box gal. The emptiness must be due to the Memorial day weekend.

Laser got the dice first and had a quick seven out. My turn was a little better, getting 17 tosses in. Laser followed with a decent hand and the dice were back in my hand. After a come out three I pressed the C & E to $12 and came right back with an eleven. $84 in the tray and we were off and running. Two come out sevens and finally a point of six. Before making the six I tossed four fours.

Next thing I know, there are six CF's at the table and things slowed down to a crawl. The CF's were coming out of the woodwork or from under the carpet. Trying to catch a hot CF can be very hazardous to your bankroll. We played at that table for two hours and were just about even. We had the only sustained rolls at that table.

Laser suggested we move to the other empty table. Chips in hand we moved. Laser opened with a good roll of fifteen or better. Next thing I know this table is getting full. I mentioned to Laser that the same faces are back at this table. Laser said yeah, they are following us again and they don't have the brains to pass the dice.

During the hour we were at that table, the stick guy related to Laser that the crews like dice setters because they attract people to the tables and they bet more while making the time go faster by keeping them busy. He said we make more points and arrack more betting.

Later one of the other stick guys asked me if I took lessons from GTC. I said no, but I know a couple of losers who did. The stick guy thought that was funny. Here I thought that GTC meant "Great Toss Charlie.

During the three hour session, I was up a hundred or down a hundred and broke out even. Laser lost a couple chips.

When we left the table everybody turned around to see if we were going to another table. We hit the cashier’s cage and headed towards the parking garage. Laser looked around and said, "well, they are not following us to the car". I said that we probably lost them when we stopped at the men's room.


« Thread Started on 5/21/06 at 14:14 »

A few weeks back I posted a thread on the Quantum slump I was in. Was it a slump, or was it a losing cycle? What I thought was a slump turned into a losing cycle that resulted in my losing every thing I touched.

During that month long drought, I not only lost at the boats, I lost at four Texas hold-em tournaments, the horse races and three golf matches. My practice sessions were terrible. Is there such a thing as a losing cycle? I sure seemed to be in one.

This happened to me last year around the same time and lasted about a month. I mean I couldn't do any thing right.

This current losing cycle seems to have ended last week. I had a modest win of $250 at Majestic Star and followed it up with a $675 win at Resorts. I finished third at a Texas Hold-em (80Players) tournament. On Wednesday I won my first golf match in league play. Friday night I played six harness races on the INTERNET and won five straight races. The last race my 12 to 1 shot ran second. I hosted our once every two months poker club and was the big winner out of seven players.

On Thursday I gave a new player a craps lesson and was really grooved in. While demonstrating some sets and tosses, I couldn't do anything wrong. I hope I didn't give the newbie a false sense of security.

We finished off the evening by throwing a few series of 36 tosses. Using the Hardway set my student threw 7 sevens and only two hardways. With the 3V set he threw 7 sevens. He asked me to throw a series of 36. I used a permutation of the 3V and threw only 2 sevens.

How can so many things go wrong for a month and then change over night? Were the stars and moon out of line during that period or was my head out of sync?


Re: Redundancy to questions…
« Reply #5 on 5/19/06 at 16:09 »

Don’t worry about redundancy to any question you might have. This board is built on redundancy. Old questions become new questions over time and serves as a review for all of us.

That being said I don't think you misunderstand, but you might be getting some false indications. If you are placing the 6 and 8, there is no need to bet a high risk Hardway.

I use the flying 3V or a permutation of it 90% of the time. After thousands of rolls I have found that I only throw Hardways about four times per 36 rolls.

As for your case, I would continue to toss more logged throws and see if it gives you a clearer picture of how often those Hard six and eights are coming up.

Last night I had a new player over for a practice session. He had a question similar to yours. I had him throw 36 tosses using the Hardway set to prove a point. He threw only two Hardways and they were both tens. In the process he threw seven, sevens.

Those four expected sevens you get when using the Hardway set, is a little hard to except. To my way of thinking, the hardways are not worth the gamble.


Re: Trampoline and Blue Dice« Reply #5 on 5/3/06 at 18:52 »

Hey Golfer,
I played at your favorite boat, Harrahs, Joliet, last Saturday night. Played three hours and threw the dice three times. They had three full, $15 tables. We couldn't get on the one with the blue layout.

We played on the first table you come to. You know, the one with the trampoline layout. Five months ago we had some success on that table but I think it will be another five months before we go there again.

When we arrived they were using red dice. The two CF'ers shooting before me had two nice runs and things were looking up. When it was my turn to throw, Laser Say's, "hey Charlie, they change the dice to blue".

Now, I don't care what color dice I throw as long as they stay on the table, but the timing of the dice change right after a hot hand makes you wonder. My first hand I seven-out so fast that Laser didn't have time to bet on me. The second hand wasn't any better.

The only thing I remember about the third hand was on the come-out, I threw a three and pressed my $6 C & E to $12 and then threw a eleven. Then point seven and out. We both hit our stop-loss and jumped off the boat.

As for rating this tug boat on a scale from 1 to 10, I give it a three. The crew was inexperienced and slow, the box guy was bored and the lady suit was too busy chasing dice all over the pit area. Sorry, Golfer.


Re: Respect for the Box Person..
« Reply #12 on 4/25/06 at 12:05 »

Over the years I have learned to appreciate the boxman's position. I use to think the boxman was nothing but a suit in training. Now that I am playing more often, I have witnessed the boxman intervene in payouts and the placing of bets. Their job becomes even harder when breaking in a new dealer or putting up with burned out dealers.

How often have you seen the stickman have trouble paying off C & E, horn and world bets? The good boxmen jump right in and tell the stick how much to pay. I have even seen the boxman take over for a new dealer just to keep the game moving along.

One time I was shorted two red chips and before I could say anything, the boxman told the dealer to pay me two more red chips. Another time my place bet was placed in the wrong position in the box. Just as I was to say something, the boxman reached over and put the bet in the proper place.

When you play from SR like I do, you are right across from the boxman and have a lot of eye contact with him. Thats the time to get him on your side with some casual comment.

Then there is the boxguy who looks like he's falling asleep. When you run into him you better hope the dealers are on the ball and the cameras are rolling.


009 BOOK REPORT and How I got started in DI.
« Thread Started on 4/20/06 at 22:47 »

By popular demand, I have been asked to post something on the three books I have had published. The question I get most is why did I do it. Boredom is the answer. During the three winter months when I can't be out on the golf course, I get cabin fever.

Well. anyway I used those winter months to read dozens of crap books. I have always loved craps and after reading all those books, I came to the conclusion that most of them said the same thing. I used some computer results to prove some of those expert's offerings. I thought it would be interesting to put the best of all their ideas together in one book. Enter book one.

"CRAPSHOOTERS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES" was put together on 67 pages. That doesn't say much for the experts, but then they were playing the same for thousands of years. The book was for the average crap player who was tired of missing out on the big roll because his bankroll was gone before it happened. The time frame was 2001.

Then came the winter of 2002. What to do! It's hell being retired. I got to thinking about the beginner who knew nothing about the game and was scared to death to try it. He needed something more than just the basics. Enter Book two.

"CRAPS AND SMELLING THE ROSES" is a good read for the beginner and the guy who thinks he knows it all. You are given a guided tour of the game of craps from the moment you walk in the casino door until you exit the cashiers cage. It includes everything that was in book one and 50% more. It has 116 pages of easy to understand craps jargon.

Just after Book two was released, I was taken in by PARR and Sharpshooter's book. A new world was opening up. Dice setting. The Rest of 2002 and 2003 was spent practicing what Sharpshooter's book was expounding on. Then GTC popped up. Somewhere along the way, one night at the Boat, Target say's, "hey Charlie, you got to check out the web site called Irishsetter.com. This was coming from a guy who was schooled by GTC twice.

2004 I checked out the site and have been here ever since. December of 2005, I got the winter book-writing urge to do one final book. This book would start where all the other books left off. No basics. If they need basics, they can read book two, first.

2006 saw two books about to come out. "The Mad Professor's Shooting Bible" and my "WAKE UP CRAP SHOOTERS and Join the Dice Revolution". Both books should give you the same result but are presented in different ways.

"WAKE UP CRAP SHOOTERS" is a step by step manual on how to accomplish what the casinos say can't be done. Dice Influencing.
The book is for experienced crap shooters who want to dedicate themselves to the modern way of playing craps.

The release date was April 19 and should be at Amazon shortly. I don't write books for a living and have tried not to push any books on anybody. I do it for the enjoyment I get out of helping someone else succeed at craps. The book is priced to sell and you will have to buy it to find out if you are in it.


Re: What does SRR mean to you..
« Reply #10 on 4/4/05 at 20:11 »

There are so many boards out there with so much loose information, that a person can go blind trying digest it all.

What is the philosophy behind the SRR? I believe it is a great training tool. Nobody likes to practice unless they can show a result.

The results tell you what sets work for you. It gives you your signature number. It tells you how fewer sevens you are throwing. You can see how good or bad you are rolling over any amount of time such as 36, 100, 200. 500 etc rolls.

What does it tell me? It tells me that I am a solid SRR of 8.15 over 31,640 rolls. It tells me that I only rolled 3,882 sevens. It tells me that I rolled 1,392 less sevens than the expected 5,273.

Regression can cause a depression. For the most part I think that a good many members of this Board can't afford to play some of the regression systems suggested. If you can over come a SRR of 8 on a $5 table, you would have $44 inside waiting to come down to $22. You need at lest two hits to show a small profit. Knowing your SRR Will help you decide when to come down. A $10 table is double the exposure.

I would agree that regression is counter productive under any conditions unless you reach a stage in the game where you have pressed up after getting your seed money out of the game.


Re: Heat Prevention
« Reply #5 on 3/25/05 at 15:03

Welcome aboard. You bring up a thread that needs to be refreshed more often. We need to be kept informed on what kind of "heat" is being raised out there and where.

While you’re waiting for the dice, you might try making a two-way hard six or eight bet for the crew. It can get very fustrating waiting for the dice to come around to you. While I wait for those cubes to come my way, I place only the eight on every other shooter. In between I might make a couple hardway bets for the crew. As the dice get closer to me, I would throw out a PL bet, say two shooters from me and certainly on the cat next to me. When I get the dice, I make a "heat prevented" PL bet for the crew.

This seems to work for me. I will say this; the boats I play on have very few shooters who tip. When I buy in at a table, it's like they found a long lost cousin.

On a recent outing I was standing behind the guy at SR1, which is my preferred position. SR2 was open and I was fumbling around getting my players card and money out, when the box guy saw me, he immediately ask the cat at SR1 to move over so I could have my preferred spot.

A little tipping in my case went a long way. It’s almost impossible to stay under the radar. But it's impair able that we developed a good repore with the crew and pit creatures.

I also believe we are great for the game. Everybody tries to mimic us. They all set the dice in some way. They see our tosses and try to do the same. The only difference is they can't put the toss and the setting together.

A few weeks ago at the boat, I just finished coloring up and was waiting for the pit creature to finish writing up a dinner comp, when he said how did you do? I said, not so good. I said I only won about $150 because I had so much in the game. He said It looked like you were doing okay. You know you really have a nice toss. I quickly said, that's because I want to look good while I'm losing. He laughed and said that was a good one, gave me the comp and walked away.

Irish, as always, your assessment of the situation leads to deeper thought on a mess that Scobie-do has caused. With FS running all over the country bragging about the millions they are winning, we have a up hill battle.

You have touch on this time and again. We must try and build a good repore with crews and pit creatures whenever we can. Defuse the situation when ever we can. Be nice. Walk away from any unmanageable situation. What ever you do, don't throw the dice over on the next table.


Re: How to spot a Dice Influencer..
« Reply #6 on 3/22/05 at 14:08 »

The first thing I would check would be is he setting the dice and try to catch what set he is using.

Next I would observe his toss and the reaction of the dice off the back wall.

Then I would check his results and how he was betting.

If I liked what I saw, I would make a couple place bets.

If he made his point, I would be with him on the pass line on the next come-out.


Re: Underarm on the fingertips
« Reply #17 on 3/19/05 at 12:43 »

Several years ago, I was at a table where this shooter would place his hand flat on the table and rub it in a circular motion and I mean he really rub his hand on that felt layout. He did this for fifteen to twenty seconds before he would pick up the dice.

The slowest dice setter in the world would be able to set faster than his routine.

I tried it once and my hand got so dirty, I think I was leaving finger prints on the chips.

Here's one idea from a GTC graduate; take your under arm deodorant and cut off a piece the size of a quarter. Press it into a rouse compact, pill box or one of those containers that lapel pins come in. Just before your turn to shoot, press your thumb and shooting finger (fingers) into the container. Rub them fingers together and you got some nice dry fingers to shoot with.

Incidentally that GTC graduate has been in a year long slump.


Re: Good throws...bad throws....
« Reply #15 on 3/7/05 at 14:13

When your throw is off, no matter how much skill you have, you have to have the knowledge or patients to correct the problem.

Most of the players we run into are lacking the knowledge this Board provides.

You ask weather poorly executed dice influencing can result in more sevens than randomly expected! It all depends on how we look at influencing".

Most of us are usually a little off axis 50% of the time. Does that mean we are negatively influencing the dice
when we are off axis? I don't think so! The would be
DI's who are to lazy to practice and gain Crap Knowledge, are still just random shooters. When a practiced DI is off axis a little, he is still going to get better than random results. Is there anyone out there
that has less than SRR of 6.1?

To answer your question, Irish, a little knowledge with out follow up training can be dangerous. Take for instance the would be DI who uses the Hardway set and he keeps sevening out. It's obvious that he is "double pitching" with that set and doesn't have the knowledge to correct it. In this case there would be more sevens than random. I rest your case!

A knowledgeable skilled DI would take measures to correct his problem. That failing, he would switch to the dark side or exit door right. Like they say, 'it's knowing when to hold them and knowing when to throw them."


Re: Good throws...bad throws....
« Reply #12 on 3/6/05 at 12:53 »

There are times when taking a break from craps is the only solution to a bad run at tables. There also are times when your shooting mechanics seem okay but your decision making process goes on strike.

Playing craps is like walking through a mine field without a mine detector. Most of the mines are concentrated in the middle of the table. Hummm!
This might invoke cause for a new thread.


Re: Good throws...bad throws....
« Reply #9 on 3/5/05 at 20:16

Yes, a bad throw from a precision shooter would increase his chances of a seven showing. However I believe the PS, DI or whatever, will throw less off axis sevens than a random roller will with his chicken feeding.

This turned out to be a very timely thread. Last night I had two friends over to the house for a tune up, before we go to Vegas at the end of the month. This is an annual thing. This is their once a year trip and the only time they play craps. I reviewed a few things with them and then we did some throwing.

Phil has a nice soft throw and hits his spot consistency. He started throwing like a CF and counted the tosses till the seven appeared. I bet him that he wouldn't get past six tosses. His tosses for each hand was; 3, 5, 4, 3, 5. I said, now set the V3 and see how far you can go.

Well, he amazed me. He started out with 8 tosses. Then he went to 12, then16, then 9. He then tried the seven set. He didn't throw to many sevens, but he became a believer. Not very many of his throws were on axis, but they were close.

I think what I am trying to say is, we don't have to be perfect, but we will still be better than the CF;s

It's threads like this that makes this Board so great.


« Thread Started on 2/28/05 at 17:52 »

Here we go again, doing just what everybody tells us not to do. That's going to the Boat on Saturday night at prime time, 8 P.M.

Laser and I Haven't hooked up since before Xmas and wanted to get in some action on the tables we will be playing on in the up coming Crap Tournament.

The Barge is packed and there are only two $10 tables open. We decided to go down and cruise the tables and wait for an opening. The Crap Gods must of returned from their coffee break because as we were approaching the second table, SL1 and SL2 open up. We jump in with a quick $300 buy in.

Surveying the table at first was discouraging. Not many chips in the racks and everybody very quite. Boy, were we in for a surprise. Laser says, "cheer up Charlie, we never lose on Saturday night".

As we normally do, when just arriving at a table, we watched a young fellow in his early twenties come out. No bets. He tosses 7, 7, 11, 10 for the point. I told Laser to watch what he was setting. Two rolls later he makes the 10. Laser says lets get on the band wagon. The young guy was using the X6's with the two, three up front on every roll. He had a beautiful soft toss.

We made our move on the PL with double odds and covered the inside numbers. Twenty minutes the kid kept making numbers. The sad part was that he only bet the PL with double odds.

His buddy got the dice next and low and behold, he was just as good. Set the dice (X6's) the same and had the same beautiful toss. After one toss, we cover inside again and made one unit presses on each hit. He held the dice a good fifteen minutes.

The dice pass over to a third member of that youth group. Would you believe it! They must of been triplets and cut from the same mold. Youth number three has the same toss and uses the same (X6's) set.
Another fifteen minute run.

At this point a big lug of a guy was lurking behind kid #3 and as soon as he seven-out, jump in next the kid to get the dice next. I said to the stick girl, where did he come from? She said I saw that and then said something to the boxman. He shrugged his shoulders and they let him shoot.

Laser and I decided to stay off the big lug. What he did, bugged us. He was rewarded his justice real quick. He went 3, point 4 and 7-out. No chips lost on him.

The next shooter was a little guy who could hardly reach over the rail to make his bets or reach the dice. We were a little worried about him, but not for long. He was at SR2. He had a nice soft lob that hardly ever hit the back wall. No heat! But he did not set the dice!
What was funny was twenty minutes into his roll he disappeared. Seems he had to go to the bathroom. What a night!

At this point I remarked to Laser, we have been here over one hour and a half and have not seen the dice. Laser says, "I'm up over $500, how you doing"? I remarked that we have our work cut out if we want hold up our end.

Meanwhile the guy at SR! had taken over for the little guy going potty. I couldn't see what he was setting, but he was using the bowler grip and underhand toss. He made a lot of numbers in his fifteen minutes plus.

Finally I got the dice! It was show time! What would the Captain do? Remember! Two games in one. I bet a $4 horn and doubling on the3 and 11, $10 PL. For all my come outs I used my 5-6 set ( 5,6 on top and 6-5 front). The result; 3, 7, 11, 2, 6 for the point. Made several passes including back to back ten's. Twenty minutes seem to be the norm when Big red showed.

Now it was Laser's turn. I knew he was going to go hardway crazy. He didn't disappoint us. It was a good hardway table and they were turning up all over. I usually never play the hardways except on special occasions and this was one of them. Another twenty minute roll on the board. What a boat ride and we haven't even gotten around the table with the dice.

The next four shooters were couples. The two girls made at lest two passes and some numbers. We made money on them. Strangely the two fellows passed the dice. They were newbee's and were asking Laser a lot of questions.

Two older fellows rounded out the table. They both set the dice, using the stacked grip. They did alright but seem to have trouble with consistency, shooting from the hook next to the dealer.

That ended the first round and you couldn't ask for a better group to shoot with.

The second round was an image of the first round. The Craps Gods must of been right under our table. The only difference was Laser decided it was show time again. He went into the zone and didn't come out for over forty five minutes. At one point he pressed a hardway bet for the crew that resulted in a $90 win. The newbee's asked why we were putting white chips along side our PL bets. Next thing you know they were doing the same thing. The crew made out big time.

Before Laser went into the zone, we had decided to pack it in after his roll. The only sour note of the boat ride was when one of the pit creatures announced that the table will now be $15. We were in the process of coloring out when he said it.

Weather the raise to $15 was intentional, I don't know. Why do it at 11P.M.? After we cashed in, we notice that there was only six people left at our table.

While we were coloring out, the boxman thanked everybody for the tips and especially pointed at Laser and myself. What a boat ride!


I've Said it Before
« Reply #7 on 5/12/06 at 12:48 »

There are two answers to your question. I was once told that using your player’s card at craps, you would have to play $25 on the pass line. How ever, I found out later that I was rated at $43 average for my stay there. At the time I was playing and betting $10 on the pass line and taking odds along with two place bets.

Each casino has its own system for figuring your average play.
Blackjack is another story. If you are not betting green each hand, they won't even track you.

All you can do is play your game and let the tracking take care of itself. Don't get caught up in chasing comps.


Re: Book Signings
« Reply #8 on 5/4/06 at 17:45 »

I would be a little skeptical about doing a book signing at any of the boats. It would be very difficult to arrange with the boats. How would you feel if someone was pushing a book on how to take your money away? Staying under the radar is hard enough.

Maybe I can arrange a joint book signing with the Mad Professor in July, in Las Vegas. Wouldn't that be something? The invisible man and the unknown author. We could put rubber stamps out on the table and let the people help themselves. Self service book signing! MP and I wouldn't have to show up. We could be at the casinos, supplementing our income.


Are You in a Quantum Slump?
Thread Started on 4/17/06 at 14:40 »

Are you in a quantum slump or are you just making mistakes at the tables?

For the past month I have been in a quantum slump of my own doing. My last three visits to the Boats have resulted in losses. My practice sessions have been just as bad. I can't seem to get past eight rolls. My perfect on axis toss (when I get one) has resulted in too many sevens.

I finally decided to try and analyze every move I made in the last month. We have been taught to do what we know to do.

The first Boat loss was when I played too much on other DI’s that were in town, without qualifying them. There were enough of us at the table that we didn't need to put action on the CF's. Bad mistake.

The second Boat loss, everything was out of sync. After buying in, I stood there with chips in my hand and watched a CF throw some fifteen numbers. When one CF had six for the point, the little voice in my head said play the hard six. I ignored the thought and watch the next toss come up hard six. I can remember at least three other times during that session that I ignored that little voice and went down in flames. To top it off, I was at the same table as the Kooler. He threw just enough numbers for me to set up the Iron Cross and then seven-out. I have got to listen to that little voice.

That brings us to my last Boat outing. This mistake was simple. I just refused to go to the dark side and play the Don't. The dice went completely around the full table with no one making a point. If Golfer or Heavy would have been there, they would have owned the Boat. I've learned my lesson, Dark side here I come.

As far as practicing is concerned, I quit messing with the sets and have concentrated on the toss. When I use the same set for 72 rolls, I seem to throw too many sevens. When I set for the point or chase the point I seem to have longer runs.

Mad Professor, where were you when I needed you? I took your advice and had a martini, changed to green dice, put on a baseball hat backwards, said three hail Mary's and started doing what comes naturally.

It's a matter of doing what we know to do for a quantum fix.


Re: Don’t Chase the Comps
« Reply #7 on 4/6/06 at 15:09 »

My policy has always been, don't chase the comps. Last week in Vegas, I logged fourteen hours at TI. My average bet, according to them, was $40. That seemed about right.

On most of the CF's I would only have a $12 place bet on the eight. On myself and other DI's, I would I would have a $12 six and eight, $10 PL with $20 odds, for a total $54. From there I would go into the Iron Cross play.

So a $40 average seems about right. I always seem to log a lot of hours at TI because I love their tables. The comps will come, but I won’t chase them. My style of play won't change just because of comps.



Do you have questions or comments about the articles and subjects discussed here at the Dice Institute? Sign up for our member's forum and share them with us!


This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on January 24, 2008 6:20 PM.

The previous post in this blog was How To Get THERE from HERE - Part II.

The next post in this blog is Are You Playing for the Exception or the Rule?.

Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

Creative Commons License
This weblog is licensed under a Creative Commons License.
Powered by
Movable Type 3.34